The domain https://fediverse.observer/ redirects to sedo now.

On October 11th these two commits where made to the repo:

this will be my final release, glad to have contributed since 2011 to some fediverse stats, https://fedidb.com/ is a great resource with more interest

this software is no longer developed

Sad to have lost such a great resource.

  • Vicinus@piefed.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    3 days ago

    A lot of the problems with Lemmy boil down ultimately to overall lack of moderation.

    Yeah, I would say we are definitely at a “work-in-progress” level, with a ways to go.

    The recent thread in the Fediverse community praising the devs of many Fediverse platforms is a great example: it became highly toxic, ultimately being locked.

    I saw the post originally. Going back it looks like FiniteBanjo went to pick a fight. I’m not trying make any judgement on their comments, just that they appear, to me, to wanted to start an argument (“Well, not all of them. Some of them are a stain on this earth.”). Not surprised it was locked at that point.

    … with the admins themselves literally flinging actual death threats against admins of other instances.

    My recollection and understanding of that situation was that it was an inferred threat, that, when confronted, was immediately rescinded and that admin stepped down due to their actions. So, I think, it’s a bit disingenuous to use that as a negative against them. To me, they responded appropriately when confronted with how their message was taken (clarification that’s not how it was intended and then stepping down from their position of authority).

    I believe soon after the .world admins faked “evidence” that the anarchist admins were really fascists trying to sow discord or something (I don’t recall the exact allegation, but I remember the evidence being shown and confirmed to be fake). My recollection is Rimu backed the .world admins even after their evidence had been shown to be faked. I want to say that is when Rimu introduced the instance “silencing” feature, to reduce anarchist influence after his and the .world admins’ attempts to expel the anarchists with the faked evidence failed.

    So there will never be a solution to this step that involves all of us getting onto the same page.

    Decentralization. There doesn’t need to be, in my eyes.

    I do decry the right of places such as Chapotraphouse to exist, but I do think that they need to be labeled properly, with a warning label …

    … the instance picker (the last time I checked) was very confusing and came nowhere close to explaining what individual users could expect when signing up to an instance.

    … as people who jumped through all of the prior hurdles flee this toxic shithole …

    On-boarding is a huge gap in my mind. From my view, we basically throw everyone in the deep-end and hope they learn to swim and aren’t too concerned with fixing the issue, because we all learned to swim, so why can’t they.

    I could see an on-boarding that quickly explains the structure (like 2 sentences about decentralization/email-analogy and identifying a users name and instance. Then go into a quick questionnaire (for determining best host instance for them) about what kind of posts they want to see (one of those could be a quoted .ml account, to see if the new user wants to see “triad” content). From there some, basic filtering/block list yes/nos (block-list for spam accounts: yes/no, agentic accounts: yes/no, bot accounts: yes/no, etc.) and interested topics (software, cats, art, etc.). I think that would go a long way in helping get an easier and more welcoming environment (may only be fully possible via Pylova features at the moment (block-lists)).

    Unfortunately, PieFed seems to be continually actively working against this goal now, making the options more opaque rather than transparent - e.g. any PieFed community on an instance that does not explicitly disable the downvote feature (and which ones have done that? how is anyone supposed to know!?) is shadow-censoring contributions offered from many different software platforms (Lemmy, Mbin, nodeBB, Friendica, Mastodon, etc.), without disclosure of that fact.

    That’s a good point I hadn’t thought of before. I’m not sure how an instance could keep a user informed without keeping a larger database of community and instance settings. Alternatively, sending that info for each load or interaction the user makes. The larger database sounds much more reasonable, but still daunting and not easily implemented and probably with a significant compute cost.

    … whose devs look to me to be tired on working to support new features, especially for PieFed.

    This isn’t surprising to me. Piefed has 20% of the users Lemmy has (and that increase to 20% is relatively recent) and developer generally want to get paid for their work (especially if they don’t have a main corporate job).

    PyLova might be the single best hope the entire Threadiverse has to grow. We’ll see what happens!

    Yeah, definitely looks to be the brightest hope we have right now. Hopefully, they can keep up a sustainable pace and don’t burn out.

    • OpenStars@discuss.online
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      7 hours ago

      Agreed about FiniteBanjo but iirc that definitely was not the only one - and it makes sense that a mod would rather ban some singular individual (especially if only for a day or two) rather than lock an entire post over such. Reddit offers the ability to lock a particular thread within a post (including I believe replies underneath it?), but I forget if that is possible in Lemmy or not. The tools tend to be significantly more primitive here, even if not enshittified for reasons of profit, just shit instead for reasons of not enough effort put in as compared to a multi-million dollar corporation hiring full teams of dedicated programmers. And then add the constraints of requiring working within the ActivityPub Protocol to enact federation and it becomes clear how much more difficult this task is to not merely replace Reddit but expand beyond it.

      Though the end users rarely seem to care about such things and instead simply want everything handed to them for free. That is what they were trained into becoming by an advertising driven model of the internet, and they see no reason to be anything else.

      About the death threats; I never said that the threat was personal and direct. And actually I had forgotten about whatever accusations were faked or whatever, though that’s besides the point for my own topic here. Vague and unspecified death threats are still calls for literal violence and portrayals of a lawless mindset that encourages such. Which some of us here on the Threadiverse very much like, while others of us here are the opposite and merely tolerate it, but your average Redditor trends more towards having been groomed to enjoy the walled garden effect, or else has already been here. In any case I was pointing towards the death threats as evidence of disorder and fighting that leads away from stability, which in turn increases greatly the complexity of the Threadiverse that is mandatory to be understood prior to joining us here.

      e.g. when/if the Flotilla defederates from Lemmy.world, that will impact a great many people. LW has >90% of the most active communities, and of the rest many have ended up via various migration effects on an instance that is a member of the Flotilla. New members will in virtually no way be guided into understanding any of this, leading to such posts as e.g. the recent one in Fediverse expressing absolute shock at having been banned from Lemmy.ml - as if that wasn’t a practically daily event here (or at least definitely would be if we had a sufficient populace to keep up that rate). We are fast falling into fragmentation, since we cannot maintain mutual respect. And especially if evidence really was being outright faked (I have no idea?), then all the more so.

      I am not trying to suggest that such an action would signal the death knell for Lemmy, but the fact that it seemed imminent at one point and in fact is still high likely does not exactly signal health either, particularly in terms of a mindset of growth as opposed to mere existence.

      I also am not opposed to decentralization, particularly since that’s already what we have now, but we should somewhere EXPLAIN this to new joiners. Although many years into this project, I haven’t really seen even the first steps towards such a thing. The PieFed instance selector came the closest to it and even sparked in me a hope that it would meet that need, but progress on that seems to have been abandoned and suggestions for PieFed to improve it have gone ignored for something like a year or so now. I doubt it will ever be carried forward, in that venue.

      Agreed about the swimming pool illustration regarding onboarding, except it’s far worse than that even: we here all learned GENTLY as the waters slowly rise about us, so we each picked up a few new concepts as the years trickled (or sped?) past us. New joiners are being asked to suddenly learn all of it at once, and even worse than that besides, to do so prior to making an account. One example: if you visit Lemmy.ml without an account you will see a Local listing of posts, which I believe is the software default for all newly created instances. Potential new joiners are not shown what is possible from observing that instance, unless they poke around sufficiently enough to notice the All button and see federated content as well. Another example is that I know of no possible way to view an instance’s set of rules from within Voyager. That entire sidebar might as well not exist for people using Voyager, which unfortunately also seems the most likely scenario for a new joiner coming here from Reddit?

      I don’t like questionaires, but something along the lines of the PieFed instance picker where the information is all laid out, filtering is possible based on it, and sentences explain the various choices possible would be a great way forward, if someone were willing to take up that project.