• h0tbeef@lemmy.zip
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    2 months ago

    If you ascribe any level of sentience or intelligence to a computer, you definitely feel much less dumb than you actually are.

      • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I mean, I’m all for local LLMs, but they are as sentient as a really good weather prediction model.

        aka not at all.

        Its just a fact of how they operate, mechanically. They are missing too many characteristics for it to even be an entertainable question.

        • hirihit640@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          They might operate differently but they still appear the same as us, 99.9% of the time. Imo if it looks like a duck and acts like a duck…

          • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            I mean… No? Absolutely not.

            I dont even know where to begin. Maybe with their state being fixed in time; LLMs do not change. An sci fi analogy might be the “no timers” in orion’s arm, who are but a single thought frozen in an infinite loop in time:

            https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/47f4311eaef31

            Except they arent even that, because its just a next word completion model, not something that thinks. It is not self aware.

            https://arxiv.org/pdf/2503.09211

            https://openreview.net/forum?id=klU4737opt

            https://arxiv.org/abs/2504.09762

            This becomes (to me) very obvious if you ever use an LLM in raw completion mode. It very smart, but at the end of the day its no different than a weather prediction model spitting out probabilities for a storm system.


            Chat finetuning is meant to get humans to anthropomorphize them by training on human preferences, and the interface further reinforces this. Its all a trick, albeit a very elaborote one.

            Will future architectures be closer to “thinking?”

            Maybe.

            But we are a long way away.

            • rayboy@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Are we not just prediction systems with more neurons?

              Now im not saying LLMs are human at all because to be human is to have gone through our exact evolutionary path, but we really are in a lot of ways much more similar than you think. At least the speaking part of our brain is.

              The argument that LLMs are fixed in time does not contradict consciousness. Say a human was stuck in a time loop and the human is asked the same question every single loop, at the exact same time, in the exact same way, with every single atom being in the exact place. Would their answer change? I would argue no, the same exact neurons would be stimulated every time that would cause the same exact answer every time.

              We don’t even have a solid definition of what is concious. Are insects conscious? Like the fruit fly, we have modeled all of its neural paths and it simplifies down to essentially being a robot that responds to stimuli.

              What does make humans special is our ability to learn. But what when an LLM trains its self? Is that not learning? I think the question of consciousness is too complex to simply say one way or the other and it is foolish to simply it this way.

              • h0tbeef@lemmy.zip
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                2 months ago

                I can’t believe how many pro-AI arguments essentially boil down to “I do not understand words”.

                We have a very solid and explicit definition of what conscious means:

                https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conscious#medicalDictionary

                The best neuroscientists in the world do not even fully understand the complicated intricacies of the workings of the human mind. We do understand 100% exactly how computers work. There is no comparison.

                • rayboy@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I haven’t even argued that AI is concious, I have said that we do not understand consciousness enough to define it. You have completely missed the point. This is Dunning-Kruger at its peak. You are vastly oversimplifying things, at what size of brain is an animal considered conscious or capable of thought? Define thought. We don’t even have a solid understanding of life, much less thoughts. Yes we have a word definition, no we do not know where the line begins and ends. It is a philosophical question that remains unanswered.

                  This definition is already making so many assumptions and over simplifications. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thought

                  We understand that the brain is what gives us our cognition, we understand that the brain is made up of chemical and electrical signals. We are not special.